May 17, 2005
I Love the Smell of Movie Lists in the Morning
Channel 4's list of the Top 100 War Movies of All Time. Let the arguments begin!
First, there are the movies that shouldn't be on the list at all. Rambo: First Blood, Part II shouldn't be anywhere on the list, not even at #100. Same with Cold Mountain. The Longest Day would be better titled "The Longest Movie"; and A Bridge Too Far could be called "A Movie Too Long." Kick them both off. Enemy at the Gates is just passable, certainly not top 100 material. Black Hawk Down in the top 10? Not in my book. Again, it's passable, but not great. The Thin Red Line is overrated hooey (I'm exaggerating for effect), and it shouldn't be on the list.
Then there's the placement. Paths of Glory, All Quiet on the Western Front, and The Grand Illusion are top ten material, and I think I'd put Gallipoli in there as well. Arguing about the placement is the most fun, and list-makers know that.
Then there's the whole question of what makes a war movie. Sam Fuller, the legendary director of such films as Fixed Bayonets! and The Big Red One, said "That's what war is about, killing and death and staying alive. I don't like war movies that are about the girl back home or politics or stealing gold or whatever the hell bullshit." I don't exactly agree with him, but I think battles should definitely be a major component. Simply taking place during a war isn't enough, so films like Gone with the Wind (which admittedly I haven't seen), Casablanca, The Birth of a Nation, Mrs. Miniver, The General, Empire of the Sun and others probably wouldn't count in my book.
And then there are the plain stupid items. I can't recall much war going on in Gladiator, and they call The Battle of Algiers a documentary.
How would your list be different?
Posted by mike, May 17, 2005 1:35 PMNo fair kicking movies off without adding some to replace them. ;-)
I think you can make a pretty good argument for calling "Mrs. Miniver" a war movie. It deals specifically with a group of people dealing with war trials at home during a war, and they were on the battlefield with the bombings. There was probably as much war going on in there as in "Grand Illusion," where most of the movie was spent hanging around the prison camp.
"Gone with the Wind" is definitely stretching the definition a little, though. If "Gone with the Wind" counts, then so does "Gladiator." It had more fighting in it than the former. I don't know that I'd count either of them. I'd replace them with any number of cheesy 1940s movies, like "Wake Island" or "Sgt. York." They are much more warlike to me, even if they are not as good of movies.
How much was has to be in a movie for it to count as a "war movie?"
Their top ten is REALLY questionable, but what really blew ME away on that list was the placement of "Troy" at #53. It is higher than "Glory," "Grand Illusion," "Stalingrad," and "The Sands of Iwo Jima?" That is a pretty credibility-destroying spot, I think.
Posted by: shane at May 17, 2005 2:22 PMAccording to the Evil Spoon movie data base, the top ten war movies of all time are as follows:
10. Glory
9. Apocalypse Now
8. Braveheart
7. Patton
6. Bridge on the River Kwai
5. Saving Private Ryan
4. Henry V
3. Platoon
2. Schindler's List
1. When Harry Met Sally :-P
"Paths of Glory" is the other top 10 war movie on my list. Please don't hurt me!
Posted by: shane at May 17, 2005 2:42 PMObviously, Rambo II doesn't belong on the list. I'd accept First Blood. They have different criteria then I do, that's for sure. The movies that I wouldn't consider "war" movies have already been mentioned by both of you. I don't have a top ten list, but my pick for best war movie of all time is Paths of Glory. And one more thing, Saving Private Ryan wouldn't even make the list if not for the first twenty minutes. Because of that I'll put it at 100. I think I slept through the rest of it. Oh, and A Thin Red Line is in my top ten, too. So there.
Posted by: shawn at May 17, 2005 5:32 PMIf you get Schindler's List (battles?) I get Casablanca and Gone with the Wind. What an annoying presentation; why can't you see all 100 at once? It's also based on viewer votes, right? No wonder there's crap on there.
Posted by: rebecca at May 18, 2005 8:12 AMOk, this is sad, but I have realized that I haven't seen nearly enough great war movies. The Grand Illusion, Fixed Bayonets, Battle of Algiers and many others too embarrassing to mention. I better start putting Netflix to work. I have seen The Muppet Movie over a hundred times, though. heehee
Posted by: Shawn at May 19, 2005 12:23 PMI have always referred to A Bridge Too Far as A Movie Too Long, just so you know.
Posted by: smich at May 22, 2005 6:19 PMI agree that Troy shouldn't be on there. I was wondering, though, would movies about the military count as war movies? I was thinking of Stripes in particular. Not that I would necessarily put that in the top 100 anyway, but I'm just wondering.
Posted by: Brian at May 26, 2005 8:42 AM